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aravindk
02-12-2012, 09:40 AM
Hello,

first of all I am no DJ. just like to play good music in my basement parties. The basement is 20X20 and have typically there about 25+ people for a gathering. I currently have a pair of RCF 312a and like them a lot. If I were to add a sub to the mix what are my options?

I read some posts here and the recommendations are coming around $1000 subs. To me, that's a plenty of money considering the occasional use of it. Anything around $500?

Thanks in advance!

Aravind.

Sween
02-12-2012, 09:45 AM
There should be no need for a sub in a 20 x 20 basement unless you wanna blow someone's eardrum... JBL JRX comes to mind, I think it's 500 watts and costs around $500-600. Should be plenty for a tiny room like that.

aravindk
02-12-2012, 09:56 AM
There should be no need for a sub in a 20 x 20 basement unless you wanna blow someone's eardrum

I didnt know that. thanks for the warning!

GaFFLe
02-12-2012, 10:09 AM
If you want a sub to round out the sound, even for your basement, that should be no problem. You're not getting the full spectrum of sound from your RCF312A's anyway, so a sub is appropriate to handle the deep lows.

That JRX is not powered so a separate amp + digital sound processor / crossover is needed. If you want to keep costs low and be convenient, get a powered sub. I'd suggest getting a matching RCF sub but they're easily $1000 or greater.

Since you're not a DJ and won't be gigging, consider the EV ELX118P. It's only $600. It's not the greatest sub but for the price, it's a decent choice.

Sween
02-12-2012, 10:17 AM
Yeah... I should have rephrased that... A sub will give you fuller sound, but you do not have a need for anything very powerful.

There is a powered JRX sub. But yeah, the $500 model is not powered.

aravindk
02-12-2012, 10:34 AM
thanks guys. i will start looking. any other recommendations are most welcome...

GaFFLe
02-12-2012, 12:08 PM
I didn't know there was a JRX powered sub. I honestly don't hear very good things with the JRX-series stuff. There PRX-series stuff usually get good praise. BUT... when you limit yourself to low fund$ for a sub, you get lower quality and performance.

Sween
02-12-2012, 12:17 PM
I used to own a JRX sub. It was fine for house parties... I bought it for $650 I think and ended up selling it for $450 to a frat. It did the job for them.

ampnation
02-12-2012, 12:19 PM
The nice thing here is, unlike most people looking for sub $1000 subs (see what i did there?) you don't need a lot of output, just low extension and quality. I think even $500 is a little low but if you're willing to go used, I think it can be done with great results. Just keep in mind that if you have to make sure your filtering is in place. If the sub will accept a full range signal you'll be ok. Having a crossover would be better. The ART312A doesn't have a sub filtered output and if it did, it would be designed for an RCF sub.

NEW

A brand new sub from EV might really be the deal for you... the ZXA1-Sub. $600 and I'm guessing a very musical sound. It was just introduced at NAMM. I'm thinking this might be a better option than the Live-X. The ZXA lineup is known as very high quality and for most DJ's this would be too small of a sub but for you, I think it might be the perfect option. If you call dealers, or email the ones on this site, you might be able to get that price down a little.

USED

QSC HPR151i. The HPR181i is well known as a great sub but somewhat heavy and discontinued. The HPR151i is its little brother and should meet your needs just fine. The 18" gets advertised on craigslist all the time for $750 to $850 so I'm thinking the far less popular 15" should go for around $500.

JBL MP418SP (I think that's the model number -- there's a passive and a powered version IIRC) is supposedly a beast and would sport more power than you'll ever need in that room. I remember the pricing was low for what it was but it might still be higher than your budget.

Al Poulin
02-12-2012, 01:22 PM
EV's Live-X 18'' powered sub would probably sound great and provide more than enough output for your application. Price is right too. As mentionned, the 312As don't provide very low bass (response falls off rapidly below 80hz) so adding any sub will make a noticeable difference. As for the new ZX subs, they look too small to be true subs and probably don't dop much below 60hz. I think the Live-X will go deeper and sound better overall.

Al

audiopyle
02-12-2012, 01:57 PM
Where are you located? I have an open box demo ELX118P you can have for $500 + shipping.

windspeed36
02-13-2012, 01:00 AM
Using a sub for that size room is like using a MAC 2000 as a desk lamp...

ampnation
02-13-2012, 02:35 AM
The ZXA1-Sub goes down to 53 at -3db. You're right. That isn't very low for a sub. Shame on me for not checking that out first.

aravindk
02-13-2012, 08:56 AM
Using a sub for that size room is like using a MAC 2000 as a desk lamp...

Just so I understand this a little better, is a sub only required if the room/audience is large? When they talk about chest thumping bass, can it be produced in a paid of RCFs alone?

Sorry abt being so ignorant!

ampnation
02-13-2012, 10:35 AM
If you're referring to the ART312A like you are, a small room can only increase the perceived volume, not the frequency range. You cannot get reproduction in the 45Hz range out of those boxes and a small room won't change that. Subs CAN make your tops louder, but they also, almost always give you bass extension. There are full range cabinets that don't need a separate sub to hit the low notes but these RCF's are not one of them.

As someone else noted, adding a sub in your instance will give you a fuller sound and it won't take the biggest sub to give you that given the size of your "venue."

If budget were not an issue, you could pick up something like a KW181 which is the successor to the HPR181i.

When comparing frequency range, try to find the -3db number if published. Very good subs will go down to around 40 Hz within the -3db range. If you see a spec like 40Hz-200Hz -3db with a max spl of 129 db, that means that within that range, the lowest output you can expect is 126 db. Usually the lowest number will be at -3db and it will drop off rapidly beyond that.

When you start delving into the last 20 Hz in the audible range, 20Hz to 40Hz, the price can increase quickly assuming the specs are legit. You'll find that specs are almost never completely legit but the lower in the food chain you go, the more dubious the specs become. You can usually spot these dubious specs due to the lack of qualifying information accompanying them. For instance, the range may be listed but with an indication of the variation (like that -3db). Without that qualifier, the volume produced at a given frequency could be worthlessly low.

I would look for a sub that gets to right about 40Hz with -3db variation and produces 129 db max spl, or possibly even a couple of db lower. Higher max spl is okay but usually comes at a cost in either $$ or sound quality if sticking to the same price level, all else being equal.

fueledbymusic
02-16-2012, 11:48 PM
Why not build a pair of tuba 30s. $500 for the 2. But then youll need an amp though

ampnation
02-17-2012, 09:05 PM
Why not build a pair of tuba 30s. $500 for the 2. But then youll need an amp though

That $500 figure is based on using which driver?

DJ Higgumz
02-20-2012, 11:01 PM
you don't need 2 t30s! if i were you i would go with a table tuba. for that size room it will crumble the drywall. build it for 150, plus a amp maybe 100, and 50 other misc items. spend the rest of your money on led strip lighting! really brings the atmosphere to a party

Coronaoperator
02-21-2012, 01:56 AM
you don't need 2 t30s! if i were you i would go with a table tuba. for that size room it will crumble the drywall. Build it for 150, plus a amp maybe 100, and 50 other misc items. spend the rest of your money on led strip lighting! really brings the atmosphere to a party

+1 Read bassmonsters review of a dual loaded table tuba here (http://billfitzmaurice.info/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=16852&start=255)

Incognito
02-21-2012, 01:59 AM
Bill does offer some sweet solutions that will work well in this situation.

Rothgery
02-21-2012, 02:54 AM
I know how you all hate Mackie, I would recommend grabbing one up on a local CL though - I've always been a bit of a fan of Mackie - the HD1501 sub goes new for about 850$ - I know thats already more expensive than your budget, but if you can find a used one for cheaper if you keep an eye out. The older SWA series are pretty good as well. You are just doing basement parties, and those SWA series subs are not that huge, but put out great bass for what you are using them for. I have to say they are pretty solid and can take a bit of knocking around too.

Another alternative would be looking into some Cerwin Vega subs, they make a lot of subs for different application, if you are doing small basement parties - you can look into getting some of the 15'' 300wt subs - or the more extreme Cerwin Vega CVA-118x 18" Active Powered Subwoofer, which is about the same price new as the Mackie HD1501 sub, as they are in the same class, still expensive like I said, but look used, you'll save a lot.

I used to rent an old ass 18'' Cerwin Vega 500wt sub, (I never bought a sub as of yet) and it did the job alright for house parties, but it lacked a lot of the low bottom end bass, especially with hip hop. Nobody there complained though, well aside from the neighbors :tup:

My best advice though - if you are buying new, 500$ might be a little low for a nicer sub for what you want, used you might get away with it, but id recommend spending around 900-1000$ new for a better sub.