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View Full Version : Upfader vs. Rotary's



fat8ack
02-10-2012, 03:36 PM
Just wondering what everyone's opinions are on this. I notice most mixers have upfaders but some do use rotary's or have a factory mod to switch to rotary's. What is the main differences between the two other than how they work? What made you decide to go one way or the other? I am very interested in mixing using rotary's and would really like to hear some input on the two different ways to control channel volume.

I have added a vid of the legend Louie Vega using a DJM1000 with rotary's. I really like how he works them!


http://www.djsounds.com/07/14/djsounds-show-7-louie-vega

Jason Cerna
02-10-2012, 03:47 PM
The volume adjustment is a lot smoother compared to linear channel faders. And on some mixers where it is standard equipment, the volume curve is smoother, compared to linear faders. It is suited more for longer type mixes/blending, like you'd see in house, techno or trance music and its subgenres. So, you'd never see a hip-hop dj with a rotary mixer.

Chay
02-10-2012, 03:50 PM
The volume adjustment is a lot smoother compared to linear channel faders. And on some mixers where it is standard equipment, the volume curve is smoother, compared to linear faders. It is suited more for longer type mixes/blending, like you'd see in house or trance music and its subgenres.

:bing:

I prefer upfaders over rotary because of this :)

fat8ack
02-10-2012, 04:03 PM
I play pretty much house, electro and (yes me too) dubstep. But really starting to get into moombahton.

Damon_Chambers
02-10-2012, 04:39 PM
i loooove rotary faders. you can probably do the same exact thing with upfaders if you are very careful, but like jason said usually the action is a lot smoother and they "feel" better.

B.Frank
02-10-2012, 05:26 PM
Only bad thing about rotaries is it's not as easy to see where the channel volume is. And if you're in to slamming tracks in with upfaders you can't do that. <3 my Empath Rotary.

dskreet
02-10-2012, 08:53 PM
Smoother mixes, love the feel and precise control with the Rotary.

http://www.dskreet.net/rotary1.jpg

Panotaker
02-11-2012, 09:14 AM
I own an original Urei 1620 and a Bozak rotary mixer and if you like to do long mixes, the rotary mixers is the way to go. The mixes just come out smoother. Channel volume is not a problem because with rotaries, you don't turn the volume all the way up on the rotary fader. I keep mine around 2:00 o'clock, so you got plenty of head room in case your next song is a different volume level. With rotaries, you can hear the next song coming in with very little movement of the volume control, unlike with slide faders, where you don't hear the next song until the slide fader is almost all the way up. That is what makes mixing with rotaries smoother. Bozak's and Urei's have always been expensive mixers, especially the Bozak. A new Bozak cost $1000 back in the 1970s, and you can expect to pay at least that much today for one that doesn't even work if you are lucky enough to find one. They also sound fantastic.

Jason Cerna
02-11-2012, 01:13 PM
... you can probably do the same exact thing with upfaders if you are very careful...

yes, this is easier to do with mixers that have longer channel faders. for those shopping around, these will be more seen in the 3 and 4 channel mixers.

dj daywalker
02-11-2012, 02:06 PM
I never understood rotaries. Upfaders are more useful, versatile and just as "smooth" as rotaries.

Chay
02-11-2012, 02:13 PM
Smoother mixes, love the feel and precise control with the Rotary.

http://www.dskreet.net/rotary1.jpg

Now I want the Empath because of that picture :P

Atomisk
02-11-2012, 02:39 PM
I never understood rotaries. Upfaders are more useful, versatile and just as "smooth" as rotaries.

Elaborate?

mostapha
02-11-2012, 03:05 PM
I never understood rotaries. Upfaders are more useful, versatile and just as "smooth" as rotaries.

That has not been my experience. I know very smooth line fader mixers exist, but I haven't been lucky enough to play on one.

If you've only played on pioneer and A&H, neither have you.

The 2016 I used is kind of a slouch as rotary mixer go (supposedly) and it was a different world.

The empath rotary might be the best of both worlds...'cuz you also get a very good CF for juggling and slamming if that's your thing.

Era 7
02-11-2012, 04:36 PM
i don't see how a rotary would be beneficial over simple upfaders. for me there is too much stuff i can do with upfaders that i can't do with rotaries. i guess its a preference thing. if you only do long blends i can see how it can be used but if you ever want to attempt slamming a mix or create a cut effect, rotaries are just useless.

Jason Cerna
02-11-2012, 04:58 PM
I never understood rotaries. Upfaders are more useful, versatile and just as "smooth" as rotaries.

have you ever mixed on a rotary mixer?


... but if you ever want to attempt slamming a mix or create a cut effect, rotaries are just useless.
well, rotary mixers are meant for specific mixing styles, making it a niche piece of equipment.

imallama
02-12-2012, 12:01 AM
I wonder...has anybody ever tried to scratch using rotary faders? Lol. I can't imagine that'd work out well...but then again it makes sense because rotary faders are meant to be used for an entirely different type of music where scratching isn't a common thing to do.

dskreet
02-12-2012, 01:04 AM
I wonder...has anybody ever tried to scratch using rotary faders? Lol. I can't imagine that'd work out well...but then again it makes sense because rotary faders are meant to be used for an entirely different type of music where scratching isn't a common thing to do.

Wont work, the Rotary Knobs are not loose enough to create a sharp cut

mostapha
02-12-2012, 02:10 AM
if you ever want to attempt slamming a mix or create a cut effect, rotaries are just useless.well, rotary mixers are meant for specific mixing styles, making it a niche piece of equipment.

Right. That's why the empath seems like the best of both worlds. If you want to slam something, you've got 3 ways to do it: transform switches, turning off the EQ with all bands set to kill, and a great crossfader.

The crossfader is the way I'd do that anyway…electro style slam mixing doesn't appeal to me in the slightest. Hip hop does occasionally.

And the original Empath was announcd in what, 2002 or 2003? The reason I use a budget vestax is because I couldn't justify the expense of an Empath Rotary.

oranJe
02-12-2012, 06:20 AM
The rotaries I have tried all had quite a resistance, so they are better compared to studio line upfaders rather than the dj type. In a way, you are sorta forced to be smooth.

There are mixers out there in which you can adjust the line faders to be quite linear, as I have on my Ecler Nuo (the newer ones). If you have 60mm faders and can adjust the curve substantially, you can do 'rotary smooth' with normal upfaders. But, you won't get that 'phat knob' feel. And we all know that feels good.

Damon_Chambers
02-12-2012, 06:40 AM
I wonder...has anybody ever tried to scratch using rotary faders? Lol. I can't imagine that'd work out well...but then again it makes sense because rotary faders are meant to be used for an entirely different type of music where scratching isn't a common thing to do.

:facepalm:

mostapha
02-12-2012, 09:54 AM
They're also prettier.

http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc160/cjbranda/IMGP1183.jpg
http://www.duo-audio.com/files/DSC02063.jpg
http://www.stradarecords.com/shop/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/djr400_1.jpg
http://drumatrixx.com/www/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/ES-DJR400.jpg
http://raikoudisdimos.wifeo.com/images/C_xonev6_main.jpg

Boomcie
02-12-2012, 10:18 AM
http://i43.tinypic.com/352j12u.gif

Damon_Chambers
02-12-2012, 11:26 AM
oh my fiving five. :drool:

Atomisk
02-12-2012, 03:13 PM
I wonder...has anybody ever tried to scratch using rotary faders? Lol. I can't imagine that'd work out well...but then again it makes sense because rotary faders are meant to be used for an entirely different type of music where scratching isn't a common thing to do.

You know that you scratch with a crossfader, not the upfaders, right?

Boomcie
02-12-2012, 06:22 PM
Actually you can scratch with upfaders

mostapha
02-12-2012, 06:55 PM
It's necessary for some techniques. Just like transform switches, which is something that was lost when SSL came about (if you also plan on using vinyl).

dj daywalker
02-13-2012, 05:41 PM
For everyone that seems to be puzzled by the fact that i said faders can be just as smooth as rotaries, do you know that you dont have to use the faders as an on off switch? You can move them at whatever speed you want. but rather than focusing on what speed you are moving the fader at or turning the knob at, you should be listening to the sound and base your actions off of that.

Atomisk
02-13-2012, 05:42 PM
It's necessary for some techniques. Just like transform switches, which is something that was lost when SSL came about (if you also plan on using vinyl).

Actually you can scratch with upfaders
I mean obviously, but what, 99.5% of scratching is done with the crossfader.

mostapha
02-13-2012, 06:47 PM
For everyone that seems to be puzzled by the fact that i said faders can be just as smooth as rotaries, do you know that you dont have to use the faders as an on off switch? You can move them at whatever speed you want. but rather than focusing on what speed you are moving the fader at or turning the knob at, you should be listening to the sound and base your actions off of that.

Agreed. But assuming that the fader is "numbered" 1-10, on a lot of mixers 1-6 do almost nothing, 7-8 or 9 fade in most of the sound and 9-10 is also basically useless…then your 60mm (or so) fader just became a 12-ish mm fader that's really steep…and in the case of analog, pretty unpredictable.

There definitely are some that have the right curve, but most of them tend to be really light so that getting anything usable out of it involves somehow slowing it down (by how you put your finger on it).

Or you can just have rotaries that have a better curve and are tighter.

brichi
02-13-2012, 07:10 PM
i also prefer rotary 100%, I just recently purchased the Pioneer DJM900 after using rotary for the last 20 years and I hated the upfaders, I feel the rotary is so much more smooth, the faders feel like even a slight movement makes to big of an adjustment, Anyway, My DJM900 is now converted to rotary thanks to a little rewiring and cutting :)

LeFresh
02-13-2012, 08:08 PM
I love my Xone 02 mixer but I really wish the eq's were rotary, I hate the fader eq's.

fat8ack
02-14-2012, 08:02 AM
They're also prettier.

http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc160/cjbranda/IMGP1183.jpg
http://www.duo-audio.com/files/DSC02063.jpg
http://www.stradarecords.com/shop/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/djr400_1.jpg
http://drumatrixx.com/www/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/ES-DJR400.jpg
http://raikoudisdimos.wifeo.com/images/C_xonev6_main.jpg

Yeah man those are some nice curves...would love to learn it!

Nick Bike
02-14-2012, 08:30 AM
upfaders alll daayyyyyy

Daniel S
02-14-2012, 08:34 AM
They're also prettier.

http://raikoudisdimos.wifeo.com/images/C_xonev6_main.jpg

Am I the only one who doesn't like the steam punk look of the V6?
I think the sleek looks of the UREI or Bozak are much nicer.

fat8ack
02-14-2012, 08:45 AM
But assuming that the fader is "numbered" 1-10, on a lot of mixers 1-6 do almost nothing, 7-8 or 9 fade in most of the sound

Not really so much on my NS6 as I can adjust the curve of my upfaders. I will usually start a song about half volume on my upfades and kinda slowly leak the beat in from the first phase of the track in to where I want to start mixing on the on already playing (I guess the first phase on the beginning of the end of the track....IDK you all know what I mean I think). Eventually going full volume when I feel it is time to do so (at the end of each phrase of each song one clearly building and the other winding down), also playing with the EQ as well, generally the bass.


upfaders alll daayyyyyy

I am certainly an upfader guy, but would really like to jack around with some rotaries, just to see what all the fuss is. You never know a brand new Emapth could turn me out.

Panotaker
02-14-2012, 01:04 PM
My old Bozak is not so pretty any more, but it is almost 40 years old. It still sounds pretty. http://www.pbase.com/panotaker/image/141480767.jpg

mostapha
02-14-2012, 01:10 PM
Am I the only one who doesn't like the steam punk look of the V6?
I think the sleek looks of the UREI or Bozak are much nicer.

I agree with you, but I wouldn't call it steam punk. And there is definitely something I love about analog needle-based level meters.

Even when I was 100% on Traktor with controllers, I would have dropped my mixer for a Urei in a second if it had come up as an affordable option.


Not really so much on my NS6 as I can adjust the curve of my upfaders. I will usually start a song about half volume on my upfades and kinda slowly leak the beat in from the first phase of the track in to where I want to start mixing on the on already playing (I guess the first phase on the beginning of the end of the track....IDK you all know what I mean I think). Eventually going full volume when I feel it is time to do so (at the end of each phrase of each song one clearly building and the other winding down), also playing with the EQ as well, generally the bass.

I don't use EQs anymore except to emphasize parts of synth lines or vocals, usually during breakdowns. I hardly do that.

And, yeah…it's definitely possible to mix with faders. The vast majority of DJs do. It's a preference thing, and one I hold strongly. If I actually went rotary, I'd want something like an 05proIV for hip hop…but anything else…I could mix all day with a 3-channel rotary with very few other features (cue/master blend and volume for headphones, line/phono switches that are accessible, and a master level meter). If I were designing it, I don't think I'd give it a master volume control because it's just not necessary…just a +4/-10 switch on the back. I'd probably give it a booth level control, but not if I were the only one playing on it…I'd just use IEMs.

fat8ack
02-14-2012, 01:20 PM
My old Bozak is not so pretty any more, but it is almost 40 years old. It still sounds pretty. http://www.pbase.com/panotaker/image/141480767.jpg

This to me is an epic picture....a 40yo Bozak mixer being used with a pair of V7's. Very cool set up man....enjoy some rep!

fat8ack
02-14-2012, 01:25 PM
I don't use EQs anymore except to emphasize parts of synth lines or vocals, usually during breakdowns. I hardly do that.

I usually leave the bass to where it is about 1/4 on the eq when blending in to the next song. And it is rather nice to have some nice loud vocal or synth on a good build thanks to the mid and high!!

Really I love my EQ's and use them quite a bit really. They are rotary......hmmmmm......I guess I love rotary and upfades the same, turns out......we can all get along!