Just had some less than stellar feedback, need more input

[Defiance]

I had a guy I've looked up review a recent practice run I did.

This was the feedback I got from him:

"You start your mixes off beat every song has a 32 count and then something in the beat changes doesnt matter genre of music, you are 8 count off your mix is a little all over the place"

I completely understand what he means with the intro/out standard setup, but to me it sounds fine (with the exception of the when the beats drifted and little mistakes), I wasn't 100% concentrating on the mix and I was just kind of winging it.

But I was a bit taken back that he said my mix was "off"

Agree, Disagree?
http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/23611859

[Lodiodrive]

I wasn't 100% concentrating on the mix and I was just kind of winging it.
http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/23611859

Why would you ask someone to review something you're not really trying at? If you're going to ask for someones feedback start by putting 100% of your effort into doing your best. Then when you get the feedback you will know exactly what to concentrate
on when you receive your feedback.

Also part of learning something new means that you're not going to be great at when you're starting out so understand when you're receiving positive feedback and learn from it. I would request more specific information than "your mix is all over the place." I'm going to check out your mix when I get back from dinner and give you my opinion (and its just that an opinion.)

I hope this helps.
-Lodiodrive

[mrkleen]

I could stand it for about 10 minutes. Most of your mixes were terrible. You should be fixing your mixes IN YOUR HEADPHONES, not when the track is live.

[Mixxed]

He was probably talking about your phrasing... And the beatmatching wasn't spot on, but cue a bit more in your headphones before you mix in... it wasn't horrible, but definitely work on some kind of theme with your mix... It is ALL over the place, just like he said.

Also, ease up on the scratching... work more on your transitions, and throw in some baby scratches sparingly especially if you're just learning...

[Defiance]

Reason I asked for feedback is because its the first recording I did like this and really the only second or third time I've had a chance for someone to review it that I know there skill level.

Mrkleen, I know some tracks floated off from being right on, and some started off a bit as well, thats not a big deal to me because thats something I usually don't do lol, I am more interested in comparing how it was mixed with 'how it should be mixed based on structure' theology. While it was not a prime example of being on point, how I typically mix in and out is about how I do it everytime.

[Defiance]

He was probably talking about your phrasing... And the beatmatching wasn't spot on, but cue a bit more in your headphones before you mix in... it wasn't horrible, but definitely work on some kind of theme with your mix... It is ALL over the place, just like he said.

Also, ease up on the scratching... work more on your transitions, and throw in some baby scratches sparingly especially if you're just learning...

lol yeah, first time I have ever tried anything more than baby scratches and yes if it as a typical night, scratching would of been 1/10th how much I did in this lol.
I understand the phrasing, but I guess I don't understand why that would make it sound off, compared to someone that the phrasing was spot on.

No theme really because it was more of a 'clean blindcrate' that I was doing for some people, hence why I was in swimming trunks and sandals lol

[mrkleen]

Mrkleen, I know some tracks floated off from being right on, and some started off a bit as well, thats not a big deal to me because thats something I usually don't do lol,

Not sure what you are laughing at. You posted a mix. It wasnt very good. Now you are trying to tell us that isnt how you usually sound?

So why did you post it in the first place?

Go back and practice more....come back when you have something you are proud to post.

[Defiance]

Not sure what you are laughing at. You posted a mix. It wasnt very good. Now you are trying to tell us that isnt how you usually sound?

So why did you post it in the first place?

Go back and practice more....come back when you have something you are proud to post.

I am more interested in knowing how 'correct' phrasing would sound v. the way I set the music up, than just feedback. If I sent you two of the songs I transitioned between , would you care to mix them together using the correct type of phrasing?

Or really anyone else?

[ben mills]

You definitely need to be cueing on the 8th bar (32nd beat). All tracks will line up this way - but to reach an even better level of mixing, try lining up on the 16th bar (or using 8 bar loops make sure you hit on the the start of the new phrase after the 16th bar (64th beat)). If I hear a mix that is cued on the 4th bar (or 16th beat) it sounds terrible, I can't imagine a mix lined up after 2 bars.

Check the mix posted in my signature to see what I'm talking about in terms of cueing in groups of 16 bars (64 beats). You'll hit more double drops and have better natural mix effects.

I spin house - so take it is for what it's worth with other genres.

[Defiance]

Ben, I listened to your mix and I run into this problem a lot. Your mix is great but its 'smooth' past the point where I can hear the different songs lol. The guy I had listen to my mix also spins house, I am just not familiar enough with it to break it apart.

From my mix, was the transition between Snoop and Will Smith on the 4th bar?
Around my area I RARELY see anyone use the loop functions, unless they are distracted or something along those lines. I typically always use the loop function, would this be a cause for having it off phrase?

[mantis]

yeah. It was a little hard on the ears. Perhaps its a combination of a few things.

you have a midi controller, which means you shouldnt even have a lot of beatmatching issues, yet you still had some off beats which you corrected later.

I must give you some rep tho, your music selection was daring.

[mrkleen]

Dance music and hip hop follows a simple formula. It is usually 4/4 (like 99.9% of the time) meaning 4 beats per bar, 4 bars per measure. In practice it is usually 8 bars per measure....or 32 beats. So most tracks follow the 32-32-32-32-32 formula.


TRACK 1 1-2-3-4 2-2-3-4 3-2-3-4 4-2-3-4 1-2-3-4 2-2-3-4 3-2-3-4 4-2-3-4 1-2-3-4 2-2-3-4 3-2-3-4 4-2-3-4 1-2-3-4 2-2-3-4 3-2-3-4 4-2-3-4
TRACK 2 ---------------------------------1-2-3-4 2-2-3-4 3-2-3-4 4-2-3-4

You need to drop the incoming track - ON THE ONE.

If you use loops, you still need to drop ON THE ONE. If you are using short loops, this gets more difficult - but a fundamental skill of a DJ is understanding not just BPM but phrasing.

You are not doing this consistently period. Your buddy didnt know how to put it correctly, but you are not mixing on measure. You are not mixing on beat either, but that is a different problem.

When you figure this out, come back and post a new mix.

[ben mills]

I'm at work so I can't really listen right now.

Also, to be fair I am not a guru in any way, shape, or form about hip hop mixing - so my 16 bar, 64 beat philosophy might not apply. I'm guessing probably not and that an 8 bar, 32 beat phrasing would work better.

At what time marks are the mixes you are questioning? When I get home I'll go through and give a listen to see what I can come up with.

The loop function is your best friend for keeping it on phrase.

Set up an 8 bar, 32 beat loop. Cue it up, and release on time with beat 1 of a new phrase. Just beatmatch within your loop, and as long as the track keeps it's time and phrase structure (not resetting with a little one bar or two bar breakdown at some point), you know you'll always be on phrase. Then when the time comes to start your mix, wait until your loop comes back around to "1" and throw your track in. It will be in time and in phrase with the live track.

This also saves you from having to cue and recue over and over while beatmatching, saving you even more time to get funky with your mixing style.

[ben mills]

Also counting like mrkleen said, 1-2-3-4-2-2-3-4-3-2-3-4-4-2-3-4-1 will really help you learn and understand phrasing. Eventually it'll be natural and you really won't even be counting in your head.

[Defiance]

I really appreciate you posting detailed responses.

I'm not sure what genres you normally spin but what about songs that have no break or place to mix out of, until the end of the song? Obviously I spin a lot of 'up-beat borderline wedding' stuff and typically the only chance to mix out would be over guitars or the chorus, etc. Another thing that is stuck in my head is to obviously not clash lyrics, so what I have been doing (since I'm not counting bars) is bring the song out at a lyrical point that makes sense, right as the first lyrics of the next song start, with no hands-on experience of bar counting.

[mrkleen]

Every chorus is still 32, so it still holds.

[Mixxed]

Another note (and this may be more personal taste)... You've got a LOT of those pre-mixed mashup tracks going on... to me, they're a bit tacky and usually make it seem like there's way too much going on. Again, just my opinion... If you want to really practice, go for some original tracks without all the other BS mixed in...

[Defiance]

I am going to use the two songs I used in that video Jive Talking and Night Fever and mix between the 32 bar points of the songs. I'll do this as much as track one allows to see if I have it down. I *THINK* I know exactly what you guys mean, but I have lacked discipline and feedback until now.

Hopefully I am not the only person that has had this issue jeeze lol


Another note (and this may be more personal taste)... You've got a LOT of those pre-mixed mashup tracks going on... to me, they're a bit tacky and usually make it seem like there's way too much going on. Again, just my opinion... If you want to really practice, go for some original tracks without all the other BS mixed in...

Just the remix service I use puts in, I agree I prefer to use "non-hype" versions of the songs if at all possible. If I never heard a fatman scoop intro ever again I'd be very happy.

[Sigma]

First thoughts - wow, look at all those flashing lights!

Second thoughts - he's scratching with his hand on the wrong side of the platter (maybe it was the way it was filmed though, but it looked weird!)

Third thoughts - the mixing isn't as bad as I thought it was going to be based on the comments.

An example of the bad phrase matching is the mix from Snoop's "What's My Name?" into the Fresh Prince thing. You start scratching around the point where you should have dropped the track in. The good in point there is the bit where Snoop says the word "name" just as the singing starts, as that's the 1 on the first bar of the chorus.

Also, don't scratch through the speakers unless you mean to. Sometimes it sounds like you're doing it just cos you're bored or something. I know you were just having a practice session, but still - you posted it up and you're asking for feedback on it. You're not good at scratching yet, so simple scratches to bring a track into the mix will work - and use them sparingly too. You seemed to fall into a very formulaic pattern of doing very similar sounding scratching, then dropping the track in (often at the wrong point), tweaking the EQ, then doing the echo thing to take it out of the mix.

There's potential there for sure. Work on nailing your phrase matching. Practice your scratching, as I think that's one of your weakest skills at the moment. Try and get a bit more variety in there in terms of technique too.

[B3NNY]

Second thoughts - he's scratching with his hand on the wrong side of the platter (maybe it was the way it was filmed though, but it looked weird!)

Third thoughts - the mixing isn't as bad as I thought it was going to be based on the comments.

.

Yea the first thing I noticed was also how his hands are placed in an unconvential spot on the other other side of the platter. I also agree that the mixing wasnt as bad as I was prepared to hear (only listened to like 15 min or so though). I'm not a fan of the play selection, but thats what you do and what you spin, so I def looked past that, but I can see how that music selection in your mix could make someone, who is judging your mix, think it was not that good even if you had mixed it flawlessly (which I dnt think you did BTW). Like Sigma said, work on your scratches. I would also say to scale back the scratching in your mixes to maybe just simple baby scratches, and even some of your simple baby's were a lil off beat which made em not sound that good. So basically if you can get your baby scratches on tempo and then work on cleaning up some of your other simple scratches (didnt see you using the x-fader, maybe thats why they all sounded a little mushy), that would improve your mix quite a bit. By listening to your mix, it sounds like your not clueless about phrase matching, you just havent perfected it. :)

[Defiance]

B3NNY and Sigma,

I'm surprised you two are the first to say anything about where my hands are on the platter, indeed you guys are correct on the placement. When playing on vinyl I do it 'right' but for some reason its natural for me to use both sides. Saying that, this was the first time ever I recorded with a 'playing' sound, and probably only had a day of practice with those samples, I actually setup cue points for one of them during this recording.

I guess I was giving it 100%, but I was MUCH more relaxed than I normally would be if I was doing it in front of more than 1-2 people like it was for this. I never scratch that much, and was more interested in trying to use all the scratch samples I had more than anything, plus I was a bit bored so I just scratched more than normal anyways. But I digress, the scratching was pretty awful in 90% of the recording.


You seemed to fall into a very formulaic pattern of doing very similar sounding scratching, then dropping the track in (often at the wrong point), tweaking the EQ, then doing the echo thing to take it out of the mix.

It is kinda funny you mentioned this, its entirely true. But it started when I got used to the NS6 and learned how to use the delay-out effect correctly lol, I rarely used effects 2 months ago and now got into the bad habit of using them alot when I do 2-channel mixing. When I use 3-channels I never seem to do. Certainly a habit I need to break. I need to find more effects/transitions choices besides the 3-4 than I know how to do.

I usually do keep a certain level of a 'theme' going but I tried to hit genres as I possibly could do, I had some 'help' picking the songs while I was doing this.